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Out of Adjustment

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Out of Adjustment
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:56:14 PM »
 

dmorgan

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I have a Savage model 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor.  (Savage 22338)  According to the specifications it came from the factory with a 20 moa egw rail. I put a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x50 with Tps low rings on it. When I went to zero it in I started at 25 yards so that I could get on paper and the first shot was about 15-18 inches low. As we tried to turn the crosshairs down to the point of impact I ran out of vertical adjustment. After the adjustment I shot a second time and it was still about 6-8 inches low. I have done some research and reading on the 20 moa rail and everything that I have found says that it should be hitting high and not low. I researched the scope I have and the website says that the rifleman scope that I have should have 56 moa of adjustment, I reset the scope to the mechanical zero and tried re-zeroing but had the same issue again. I am completely confused on what is wrong and what I need to do to get it zeroed. Any information and advise will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 11:33:01 PM »
 

Jeff M

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First, stop trying to zero at 25 yards.

Second, there is no such thing as "mechanical zero". I'm guessing you mean mechanical CENTER, but the unfortunate reality is that mechanical center isn't necessarily where the reticle is in the middle of the tube.    Especially in a scope of that price range, quality is not the number one concern of the manufacturer. It may be off a bit. But even if we give it the benefit of the doubt and say it's perfect (highly unlikely), there's no guarantee the base is perfectly in line with the bore, or that the base is actually adding exactly 20moa (they aren't bedded from the factory, so due to matching tolerances it wouldn't be a stretch for it to be off a bit, which will add/remove elevation).

Third, 56 moa is incredibly limited. That means you only have 28 moa of vertical adjustment from mechanical center (NOT zero, as noted above). For the sake of argument, however, and ease of discussion, we will assume that if the scope was in the mechanical center, and you had a 0 moa mount, that you would be correctly zero'd at 100 yards (a mathematical impossibility, but I digress). Now, with that 20 moa rail, you no longer have 28 moa in each direction, you have 8 moa down and 48 moa up.  That's not doing yourself any favors since you will still need to dial down from mechanical center to overcome the ring offset. This also assumes that the reticle is in the exact center and the base and rings are straight. If you have to dial windage on to get to center, you will further reduce your elevation travel.

Lastly, you didn't say how far you plan to shoot this rifle.  With that low magnification, I'm guessing not that far. If you want to use that scope, I'd ditch the 20 moa base and get a 0 moa base. The other issue with that scope if you plan to use it for target shooting is it has a fixed parallax at 150 yards. That is less than desirable unless you plan to shoot at 150 yards.
Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 09:36:46 AM »
 

opticspecialist

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I have a Savage model 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor.  (Savage 22338)  According to the specifications it came from the factory with a 20 moa egw rail. I put a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x50 with Tps low rings on it. When I went to zero it in I started at 25 yards so that I could get on paper and the first shot was about 15-18 inches low. As we tried to turn the crosshairs down to the point of impact I ran out of vertical adjustment. After the adjustment I shot a second time and it was still about 6-8 inches low. I have done some research and reading on the 20 moa rail and everything that I have found says that it should be hitting high and not low. I researched the scope I have and the website says that the rifleman scope that I have should have 56 moa of adjustment, I reset the scope to the mechanical zero and tried re-zeroing but had the same issue again. I am completely confused on what is wrong and what I need to do to get it zeroed. Any information and advise will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


I would start a little farther out. your scope's adjustment is .25 at 100 yard, so at 50 it's half that, and 25 it's so tiny your spinning that turret a ton to get a little adjustment. I would double check your mounts, if the ring isn't sitting in the groove on the rail, but on top of it, that could cause some serious issues, or if the picatinny rail isn't mounted correctly, same thing. you have about 28 moa of adjustment, assuming the scope is mechanically centered, plus the 20 moa rail. can you post pictures of the set up?
Jay Wiggins
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 01:04:29 PM »
 

dmorgan

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I have some pictures but I do not know how to add them to my post.  I will be glad to post them if you could tell me how.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2017, 05:46:01 PM »
 

Jeff M

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I have a Savage model 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor.  (Savage 22338)  According to the specifications it came from the factory with a 20 moa egw rail. I put a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x50 with Tps low rings on it. When I went to zero it in I started at 25 yards so that I could get on paper and the first shot was about 15-18 inches low. As we tried to turn the crosshairs down to the point of impact I ran out of vertical adjustment. After the adjustment I shot a second time and it was still about 6-8 inches low. I have done some research and reading on the 20 moa rail and everything that I have found says that it should be hitting high and not low. I researched the scope I have and the website says that the rifleman scope that I have should have 56 moa of adjustment, I reset the scope to the mechanical zero and tried re-zeroing but had the same issue again. I am completely confused on what is wrong and what I need to do to get it zeroed. Any information and advise will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


I would start a little farther out. your scope's adjustment is .25 at 100 yard, so at 50 it's half that, and 25 it's so tiny your spinning that turret a ton to get a little adjustment. I would double check your mounts, if the ring isn't sitting in the groove on the rail, but on top of it, that could cause some serious issues, or if the picatinny rail isn't mounted correctly, same thing. you have about 28 moa of adjustment, assuming the scope is mechanically centered, plus the 20 moa rail. can you post pictures of the set up?

I know you're the optics specialist, and I normally defer to you on all things glass, but...   I'm pretty sure that scope is 1/2moa per click, no?

Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 05:49:05 PM »
 

Jeff M

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I have some pictures but I do not know how to add them to my post.  I will be glad to post them if you could tell me how.

Throw them up on a free hosting site like photobucket or imgur. Then in your post, click the little picture icon and paste in the link to the photo.
Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2017, 06:17:23 PM »
 

dmorgan

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Yes it is 1/2 moa adjustments.

Here are the pictures




 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 08:03:20 PM »
 

Jeff M

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They don't appear to be working..
Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 08:16:15 PM »
 

dmorgan

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I had to right click and open picture in a new tab or window and they came up that way.  If that does not work let me know and I will try something different.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 11:24:13 AM »
 

opticspecialist

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I have a Savage model 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor.  (Savage 22338)  According to the specifications it came from the factory with a 20 moa egw rail. I put a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x50 with Tps low rings on it. When I went to zero it in I started at 25 yards so that I could get on paper and the first shot was about 15-18 inches low. As we tried to turn the crosshairs down to the point of impact I ran out of vertical adjustment. After the adjustment I shot a second time and it was still about 6-8 inches low. I have done some research and reading on the 20 moa rail and everything that I have found says that it should be hitting high and not low. I researched the scope I have and the website says that the rifleman scope that I have should have 56 moa of adjustment, I reset the scope to the mechanical zero and tried re-zeroing but had the same issue again. I am completely confused on what is wrong and what I need to do to get it zeroed. Any information and advise will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


i need to stop day drinking. it is half moa adjustments. i wonder why on earth they did that.

I would start a little farther out. your scope's adjustment is .25 at 100 yard, so at 50 it's half that, and 25 it's so tiny your spinning that turret a ton to get a little adjustment. I would double check your mounts, if the ring isn't sitting in the groove on the rail, but on top of it, that could cause some serious issues, or if the picatinny rail isn't mounted correctly, same thing. you have about 28 moa of adjustment, assuming the scope is mechanically centered, plus the 20 moa rail. can you post pictures of the set up?

I know you're the optics specialist, and I normally defer to you on all things glass, but...   I'm pretty sure that scope is 1/2moa per click, no?
Jay Wiggins
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 11:27:30 AM »
 

opticspecialist

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Yes it is 1/2 moa adjustments.

Here are the pictures






is the scope objective touching the rail? it could be the pictures, but it seems the front of the scope is higher, possibly due to the objective hitting the rail.
Jay Wiggins
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 06:20:49 PM »
 

dmorgan

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The scope clears the rail.  I can fit a note card between the rail and the bell of the scope.  It is very close though, do I need to move the rings forward one notch just to make sure it is good and clear, or is that enough clearance?
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2017, 09:12:32 PM »
 

RustyMetal

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Sounds like your scope mount rail is backwards.
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2017, 02:05:09 PM »
 

RustyMetal

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If the rail is built into the rifle, then try swapping your scope rings. Front one to back, rear one to front.
(I forgot to mention that before.) Something sounds too out of whack to be your scope.
     
 

Re: Out of Adjustment
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2017, 09:36:44 AM »
 

Extortion

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Are the rings lapped?
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